EFL - Enciclopedia delle Famiglie Lombarde

http://www.geni.com/people/Alpaida-Abbess-of-Saint-Pierre-le-Bas/60000 00001715413750 Alpaida, wife of Beggue, is now thought to have been t he daughter of Louis the Pious, according to Charles Recker. likely d aughter of Louis I and unknown concubine In later life, she became Ab besse de St-Pierre-de-Reims married Bego (Begue) Count of Paris Chil dren: •Liuthard •Eberhard •Susanna --------------------------- -- Alpaida's ancestry is in doubt. She was the daughter or half-siste r of Louis the Pious. Wikipedia favors the older theory that there wer e two women of the same name, one of whom was daughter of Charlemagn e and married Beggue, Count of Paris, and the other a daughter of Loui s and married Albéric, Count of Alsace: •Charlemagne's third know n concubine was Amaltrud of Vienne. By her he had Alpaida (b.794) (htt p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne). •Louis the Pious had two ill egitimate children by his concubine, including a daughter Alpais by Th eodelinde of Sens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_the_Pious). Char les Cawley supports the view that the wife of Beggue was possibly a da ughter of Louis, but does not call her a wife of Albéric. http://fm g.ac/Projects/MedLands/CAROLINGIANS.htm# [ALPAIS ([793/94]-23 Jul 85 2 or after, bur [Reims]). Flodoard refers to "Ludowicus Alpheidi fili e sue uxori Begonis comitis" [''Flodoardus Remensis Historia Remensi s Ecclesiæ'' IV, XLVI, MGH SS XXXVI, p. 448]. The ''Annales Hildeshei menses'' name "filiam imperatoris… Elpheid" as the wife of "Bicgo d e amici regis" when recording the death of her husband [''Annales Hild esheimenses'' 815, MGH SS III, p. 42]. Settipani discusses the debat e about the paternity of Alpais, preferring the theory that Emperor Ch arles I was her father [Settipani (1993), pp. 200-02]. If Emperor Loui s was her father, it is unlikely that she was born before [793/94], gi ven his known birth date in 778. It would therefore be chronologicall y tight for her to have had [three] children by her husband before hi s death in 816. However, no indication has been found in primary sourc es of the age of these children when their father died. The question o f Alpais's paternity is obviously not beyond doubt, but it is felt pre ferable to show her as the possible daughter of Emperor Louis in vie w of the clear statement in Flodoard. No indication has been found o f the name of Alpais's mother. If Alpais was the daughter of Emperor L ouis, it is likely that she was not her husband's only wife in view o f Bego's estimated birth date. After her husband died, she became abbe ss of Saint-Pierre-le-Bas at Reims in [817]. She was still there 29 Ma y 852. m ([806]) [as his second wife,] BEGO, son of [GERARD [I] Comt e de Paris & his wife Rotrud] ([755/60]-28 Oct 816). He governed the c ounty of Toulouse as "marchio" for Septimania in 806. Comte de Paris i n [815], succeeding comte Stephanus.] (Medlands, Carolingians.) Sharo n's NOTE: It seems worth pointing out that this is the Wikipedia versi on (Jan 2011), and Cawley's Medlands doesn't mention an Alpaida or a n Amaltrude. A possible reason is that the Wikipedia concubine, Amaltr ud, is the NN concubine of Cawley.(I have discussed on those profile s the arguments for and against both attributions) Also to bear in min d is that Charlemagne has a grandaughter through his son, Louis I, cal led Alpais (born 793), whose name may also cause confusion. She becam e Abbess of Saint-Peter's, Rheims, after the death of her husband. -- ---------------------------- From the Foundation for Medieval Genealo gy page on France Carolingian Kings (covering her parents and fellow i llegitimate child): Ben M. Angel notes: The Holy Roman Empire did n ot exist during this person's lifetime. The title to which Louis I, he r possible father, held was that of "Emperor of the Romans". The Hol y Roman Empire did not exist until 2 February 962, when Otto I was cro wned the first Emperor of the entity that would later take that name . Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire http://e n.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_I_the_Great -------------------- [De La Po le.FTW] Sources: RC 250, 269. 350; NEHGR v99, A. Roots 191; AF. Root s: Natural daughter of Charlemagne. Also called Aupals. An abbess o f St. Peter's at Rheims.[joyeuse.FTW] [De La Pole.FTW] Sources: RC 2 50, 269. 350; NEHGR v99, A. Roots 191; AF. Roots: Natural daughter o f Charlemagne. Also called Aupals. An abbess of St. Peter's at Rheims .[royalty_combined6.FTW] Aupais SOURCES: LDS FHL Ancestral FIle #9GC T-11 (familysearch.org) WEB: "Ancestors/Descendants of Royal Lines " (Contributors: F. L. Jacquier (History of Charlemagne by Christian S ettipani); L. Orlandini, ManuelAbranches de Soveral, Reynaud de Paysac , F.L. J P de Palmas (Aurejacet Tournemire; Frankish line; The Complet e Peerage, Jacquier (Genealogy of Lewis Carroll, Justin Swanstrom, Th e Royal Families of England Scotland & Wales by Burkes Peerage; Debret t's Peerage & Baronage; Tableof descendants French Canadian Genealogic al Society; Families of Monfort-sur-Risle & Bertrand de Bricquebec; Th e Dukes of Normandy, XXXXI),A. Brabant ("Dynastie Montmorency, Miche l d'Herbigny), Paul Leportier,Claude Barret, H.R. Moser (Burke Peerage ), O.Guionneau, L.B. de Rouge, E. Polti, N. Danican (Britain's Royal F amilies; Buthlaw, Successionof Strathclyde, the Armorial 1961-62) A.Te rlinden (Genealogy of theexisting British Peerage, 1842), L. Gustavsso n, C. Cheneaux, E. Lodge,S.Bontron (Brian Tompsett), R. Dewkinandan, H . de la Villarmois, C. Donadello; Scevole de Livonniere, H. de la Vill armois, I. Flatmoen,P. Ract Madoux (History of Morhange; Leon Maujean ; Annuaire de Lorraine, 1926; La Galissonniere: Elections d'Arques e t Rouen), Jean de Villoutreys (ref: Georges Poull), E. Wilkerson-Theau x (Laura Little), O. Auffray, A. Brabant (Genealogy of Chauvigny of Bl ot from "Chanoine Prevost Archiviste du Diocese de Troyes Union Typogr aphique Domois Cote-d'Or 1925), Emmanuel Arminjon (E Levi-Provencal Hi stoire de l'Espagne Andalouse), Y. Gazagnes-Gazanhe, R. Sekulovich an d J.P. de Palmas ("notes pierfit et iconographie Insecula", Tournemire ), H de Riberolles (Base Tournemire), Franck Veillon........... http:/ /geneastar.org. AWTP: "The Ancestry of Overmire Tifft Richardson Bra dford Reed" Larry Overmire larryover@worldnet.att.net _______________ ____________________________________ NOTE: Some sources here and othe rs I have seen place Alpaide as granddaughter of Charlemagne rather th an illegimate daughter of Charlemage. _______________________________ _______________ Common Ancestor of Robert McKinsey (* through Amici a de Clopton abt 1256) and Valerie Pippi ( through William de Clopto n abt 1259)) http://larryvoyer.com/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I 37339&tree=v7_28 -------------------- Wife of Adalarde, name unknow n Cronologia di Alpaida, Abbess of Saint-Pierre-le-Bas 803 803 Ag e 10 Marriage of Adelheid (Alpais, Aupals) to Begue / Beg... , Paris , Ile-de-France, France ???? Marriage of Adelheid (Alpais, Aupals ) de Paris to Ad...